Home > Community > Forums > Custom IC Design > How do you deal with generated data

Email

* Required Fields

Recipients email * (separate multiple addresses with commas)

Your name *

Your email *

Message *

Contact Us

* Required Fields
First Name *

Last Name *

Email *

Company / Institution *

Comments: *

 How do you deal with generated data 

Last post Mon, Jul 30 2007 4:23 PM by archive. 4 replies.
Started by archive 30 Jul 2007 04:23 PM. Topic has 4 replies and 1690 views
Page 1 of 1 (9 items)
Sort Posts:
  • Mon, Jul 30 2007 4:23 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Hi there,

    We are currently having a discussion, where we try to decide, what data we should manage.
    For sure any primary data e.g hand-edited-schematics, or RTL code should be managed.

    What do you do with generated data, e.g. a verilog netlist or an extraced cellview.
    That generates dependencies between different views of the same object that one should track....

    I am wondering, what the best approach is.
    Does anyone have a suggestion or best practice advice?

    Thanks,

    Nena


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by Nena
    • Post Points: 0
  • Wed, Aug 1 2007 7:22 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Hi Nena,

    We had a similar discussion a while back.
    We decided to manage any Cadence view as a starting point. That way, we don't have to regenerate the view(s).
    We also do not include any check-in/check-out calls in our customizations.
    That has the draw back that the user is responsible to obtain write permissions to the cell view before he does something.
    It took takes some getting used to that, but it working out as far as I know.
    For any other generated data we let the users decide what they manage and not. Some of our projects do manage some generated netlists, some don't.
    I would be interested as well to hear what other's are doing.

    Regards,

    Britta


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by Britta
    • Post Points: 0
  • Thu, Aug 23 2007 8:53 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Here're my 2 cents.

    There's probably no right or wrong answer here. What you choose to DM depends a lot on your flow, and that's a function of how the tools in your flow behave. If your flow insists that netlists be generated every time right before they are used, DM the netlist might actually cause problems (think of AMS's netlists in cellviews and TMPDIR usage). On the other hand, not DM'ing netlists can leave you in a situation where the more recently generated netlists do not match an older version of schematic you just checked out, and if the tools in your flow just check for time stamp, you can very well be working on netlists which don't match your design.

    DM and archiving are related, but are really different. As our moderators said in their interviews, DM is so important for multi-site designs. If you look at DM as something that is active and current, versus archiving which is static, you will consider the management of secondary or generated files as important. The fact that you can generate these secondary files does not mean that your flow will always generate them as needed.

    Best regards,
    Teng-Kiat Lee
    Product Engineering, Central Architecture and Technology


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by tklee@cadence.com
    • Post Points: 0
  • Thu, Aug 23 2007 8:54 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Here're my 2 cents.

    There's probably no right or wrong answer here. What you choose to DM depends a lot on your flow, and that's a function of how the tools in your flow behave. If your flow insists that netlists be generated every time right before they are used, DM the netlist might actually cause problems (think of AMS's netlists in cellviews and TMPDIR usage). On the other hand, not DM'ing netlists can leave you in a situation where the more recently generated netlists do not match an older version of schematic you just checked out, and if the tools in your flow just check for time stamp, you can very well be working on netlists which don't match your design.

    DM and archiving are related, but are really different. As our moderators said in their interviews, DM is so important for multi-site designs. If you look at DM as something that is active and current, versus archiving which is static, you will consider the management of secondary or generated files as important. The fact that you can generate these secondary files does not mean that your flow will always generate them as needed.

    Best regards,
    Teng-Kiat Lee
    Product Engineering, Central Architecture and Technology


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by tklee@cadence.com
    • Post Points: 0
  • Thu, Aug 23 2007 8:55 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Here're my 2 cents.

    There's probably no right or wrong answer here. What you choose to DM depends a lot on your flow, and that's a function of how the tools in your flow behave. If your flow insists that netlists be generated every time right before they are used, DM the netlist might actually cause problems (think of AMS's netlists in cellviews and TMPDIR usage). On the other hand, not DM'ing netlists can leave you in a situation where the more recently generated netlists do not match an older version of schematic you just checked out, and if the tools in your flow just check for time stamp, you can very well be working on netlists which don't match your design.

    DM and archiving are related, but are really different. As our moderators said in their interviews, DM is so important for multi-site designs. If you look at DM as something that is active and current, versus archiving which is static, you will consider the management of secondary or generated files as important. The fact that you can generate these secondary files does not mean that your flow will always generate them as needed.

    Best regards,
    Teng-Kiat Lee
    Product Engineering, Central Architecture and Technology


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by tklee@cadence.com
    • Post Points: 0
  • Thu, Aug 23 2007 8:55 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    Here're my 2 cents.

    There's probably no right or wrong answer here. What you choose to DM depends a lot on your flow, and that's a function of how the tools in your flow behave. If your flow insists that netlists be generated every time right before they are used, DM the netlist might actually cause problems (think of AMS's netlists in cellviews and TMPDIR usage). On the other hand, not DM'ing netlists can leave you in a situation where the more recently generated netlists do not match an older version of schematic you just checked out, and if the tools in your flow just check for time stamp, you can very well be working on netlists which don't match your design.

    DM and archiving are related, but are really different. As our moderators said in their interviews, DM is so important for multi-site designs. If you look at DM as something that is active and current, versus archiving which is static, you will consider the management of secondary or generated files as important. The fact that you can generate these secondary files does not mean that your flow will always generate them as needed.

    Best regards,
    Teng-Kiat Lee
    Product Engineering, Central Architecture and Technology


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by tklee@cadence.com
    • Post Points: 0
  • Mon, Sep 3 2007 9:09 AM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    This post from tklee@cadence.com  was inadvertenly deleted:

    Here're my 2 cents.

    There's probably no right or wrong answer here. What you choose to DM
    depends a lot on your flow, and that's a function of how the tools in
    your flow behave. If your flow insists that netlists be generated every
    time right before they are used, DM the netlist might actually cause
    problems (think of AMS's netlists in cellviews and TMPDIR usage). On the
    other hand, not DM'ing netlists can leave you in a situation where the
    more recently generated netlists do not match an older version of
    schematic you just checked out, and if the tools in your flow just check
    for time stamp, you can very well be working on netlists which don't
    match your design.

    DM and archiving are related, but are really different. As our
    moderators said in their interviews, DM is so! important for multi-site
    designs. If you look at DM as something that is active and current,
    versus archiving which is static, you will consider the management of
    secondary or generated files as important. The fact that you can
    generate these secondary files does not mean that your flow will always
    generate them as needed.

    Best regards,
    Teng-Kiat Lee
    Product Engineering, Central Architecture and Technology



    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by Administrator
    • Post Points: 0
  • Wed, Sep 5 2007 2:42 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    As disk has gotten less expensive, I have seen the trend to save more generated data. If the DM system in use can help ensure all the source data is aligned with the generated data, this can save a lot of time when unwinding changes to find the last time something worked.

    Chris Goldstein


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by chrisg
    • Post Points: 0
  • Fri, Sep 14 2007 3:01 PM

    • archive
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 4 2008
    • Posts 88
    • Points 4,930
    RE: How do you deal with generated data Reply

    I'd certainly agree with all of the above. But I wanted to add one more thought.
    I believe that when you talk about "the data", you have to consider what that really means.
    Things move so fast and process are more complex than ever. Where I see people spending
    effort is not just in getting a configuration of data, but rather in determining how they got to that state.
    You have to have a way to store both the data and some of the key driving knowledge, such as intent.
    Otherwise, you may never know why some changes were made, by whom and when. Sure, your circuit designer and layout designer can ping-pong changes back and forth, but it's the additional layer of knowledge that makes that collaboration more valuable. And that gets magnified over time (how long do you need to keep old designs around?) and complexity.

    Just something to think about.
    Rick


    Originally posted in cdnusers.org by rkstanton
    • Post Points: 0
Page 1 of 1 (9 items)
Sort Posts:
Started by archive at 30 Jul 2007 04:23 PM. Topic has 4 replies.