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 Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout 

Last post Fri, Sep 16 2011 2:18 AM by whlinfei. 5 replies.
Started by moralope 21 Apr 2011 04:37 AM. Topic has 5 replies and 4182 views
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  • Thu, Apr 21 2011 4:37 AM

    • moralope
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Tue, Mar 29 2011
    • Posts 6
    • Points 90
    Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply

     Hi,

    I am trying to make a calibre extraction of the R+C+CC parasitics and I am getting some strange results. The layout is DRC and LVS clean and when I extract the layout without parasitics, my simulations work well. When I extract C+CC it also works well, but then when I include the R parasitics, the simulation starts to behave strange. 

    To try to simplify and detect the problem, I only extracted one of the 2 nodes that are generating problems. The circuit contains 2 "pseudoresistor" connected in series, that is, 2 PMOS transistors with the BULK and SOURCE shorted. I have extracted the R parasitics (no cap) in the middle node.What is strange is that when I extract the R parasitics without any kind of parasitic reduction, the simulation of the cicuits does not work. But when I perform some reduction by combining several series resistor, the simulation works well.

    I do not understand what is going on. It seems the problem is from Spectre, because the netlists for both cases seem correct to me. Please see the relevan extract of my netlist:

    Without reduction:

         MM25 (MM25_d VhpP net020 net020) pch l=2e-07 w=3.5e-07 m=1 nf=1 \
            sd=620.0n ad=2.114e-13 as=2.198e-13 pd=1.88e-06 ps=1.92e-06 \
            nrd=1.72571 nrs=1.79429 sa=5.2e-07 sb=1.06e-06 sca=6.58985 \
            scb=0.00296926 scc=1.34332e-05

         MM29 (OUT VhpP MM29_s MM29_b) pch l=2e-07 w=3.5e-07 m=1 nf=1 sd=620.0n \
            ad=2.114e-13 as=2.198e-13 pd=1.88e-06 ps=1.92e-06 nrd=1.72571 \
            nrs=1.79429 sa=5.2e-07 sb=1.06e-06 sca=6.58985 scb=0.00296926 \
            scc=1.34332e-05

        rnet028_11 (net028_2 net028_7) resistor r=0.0206471
        rnet028_10 (net028_2 net028_10) resistor r=0.0431024
        rnet028_9 (net028_3 net028_7) resistor r=0.112412
        rnet028_8 (net028_3 net028_5) resistor r=10
        rnet028_7 (net028_5 MM29_s) resistor r=6.08436
        rnet028_6 (net028_5 net028_16) resistor r=4.24952
        rnet028_5 (net028_7 MM29_b) resistor r=11
        rnet028_4 (MM29_b net028_16) resistor r=4.2219
        rnet028_3 (net028_10 net028_11) resistor r=0.798652
        rnet028_2 (net028_11 net028_13) resistor r=0.0345872
        rnet028_1 (net028_13 net028) resistor r=10
        rnet028_0 (MM25_d net028) resistor r=6.09418
     

    With reduction:

        MM25 (MM25_d VhpP net020 net020) pch l=2e-07 w=3.5e-07 m=1 nf=1 \
            sd=620.0n ad=2.114e-13 as=2.198e-13 pd=1.88e-06 ps=1.92e-06 \
            nrd=1.72571 nrs=1.79429 sa=5.2e-07 sb=1.06e-06 sca=6.58985 \
            scb=0.00296926 scc=1.34332e-05
        MM29 (OUT VhpP MM29_s MM29_b) pch l=2e-07 w=3.5e-07 m=1 nf=1 sd=620.0n \
            ad=2.114e-13 as=2.198e-13 pd=1.88e-06 ps=1.92e-06 nrd=1.72571 \
            nrs=1.79429 sa=5.2e-07 sb=1.06e-06 sca=6.58985 scb=0.00296926 \
            scc=1.34332e-05

        rnet028_5 (MM25_d net028) resistor r=0.01
        rnet028_4 (net028_5 net028_7) resistor r=10.1124
        rnet028_3 (net028_5 MM29_s) resistor r=6.08436
        rnet028_2 (net028_5 MM29_b) resistor r=8.47143
        rnet028_1 (net028_7 net028) resistor r=16.9912
        rnet028_0 (net028_7 MM29_b) resistor r=11
     

    For me the 2 circuits should simulate in the same way because the only difference is the combination of resistors in series. But how to make sure that it is a problem of my circuit or a problem of spectre?

    Have someone seen something like that before?

    Thanks and best regards,

     moralope

    • Post Points: 35
  • Thu, Apr 21 2011 10:16 PM

    Re: Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply

    It's fairly unlikely to be spectre, but one possibility might be that your circuit has multiple stable operating points - and it may be rolling into one or other depending on a slight change in starting conditions. I've seen that often as a root cause of such unexpected behaviour.

    The best thing would be to provide the entire data to customer support so that an AE can take a look.

    Regards,

    Andrew.

    • Post Points: 20
  • Wed, Apr 27 2011 9:53 AM

    • moralope
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Tue, Mar 29 2011
    • Posts 6
    • Points 90
    Re: Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply

     Hi Andrew,

    I have checked for multiple operating points and I have not detected any problem. The circuit only have one operating point, but it is wrong after the extraction.

    However, my circuit is sensitive to leakage current in the 2 transistors. As these transistor are implementing a very big resistor in the order of the TOhm, then any small current flowing through the transistors can cause a large voltage drop. I have put gmin=0 to have a more accurate simulation. 

    When I increase the gmin to 1e-12 (default value), my simulation works again. So, my simulation works either for a "big" gmin or for bigger parasitic resistors (obtained after combining several small resistors).

    So, my questions are: Is the leakage current of the transistors not well modeled in the schematic? How does the leakage current change with the parasitic resistors? Is there a gmax value specified somewhere that depends on the gmin?

    Thanks.

    moralope

    • Post Points: 5
  • Mon, Sep 5 2011 10:18 PM

    • whlinfei
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Mar 15 2009
    • Posts 24
    • Points 435
    Re: Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply
    Hi, It seems I am the same calibre extraction issue with the parasitic R. Would you kindly tell me if you know the solution to this problem now ? thank you. Linfei
    • Post Points: 20
  • Mon, Sep 5 2011 10:27 PM

    • moralope
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Tue, Mar 29 2011
    • Posts 6
    • Points 90
    Re: Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply

    Hi Linfei,

    I was not able to solve this issue and it is still a mistery for me. I asked many experts around and they were also surprised with that.

    I am still interested to solve this problem because I am facing it again, so if you have any news please let me know.

    Best regards,

    moralope.

    • Post Points: 20
  • Fri, Sep 16 2011 2:18 AM

    • whlinfei
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Mar 15 2009
    • Posts 24
    • Points 435
    Re: Spectre simulation of calibre extracted layout Reply
    Hi, I know my problem now. it is what Andrew suggested. my circuit had several operating point. My suggestion is that you run DC analysis first to see if both schematic and post-layout simulation results match. if not, you can compare the netllist to find out the difference. sometimes, the schematic instance does not cover everything, at least that's the cause in my case. hope it helps. Regards, Linfei
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    • Post Points: 5
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Started by moralope at 21 Apr 2011 04:37 AM. Topic has 5 replies.