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 No Board outline when artwork is made 

Last post Fri, Feb 22 2013 1:04 PM by N i z e. 15 replies.
Started by Dennis H 15 Sep 2009 05:04 AM. Topic has 15 replies and 4771 views
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  • Tue, Sep 15 2009 5:04 AM

    • Dennis H
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    No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

     Hello,

    I have a PDF called A basic intrduction to Cadence Orcad (Allegro) 16.2 PCB Designer.

    I have been following that to help me learn  this program, so far it has worked but when I make the artwork (gerber files) Fig.25 says the Board Outline is not included in the films. Why is that? the PDF doesn't give me a reason why. 

     Doesn't the PCB Manufacture need the outline to make the board?

     

    The PCB software I use now is Orcad Layout 9.0 and I can make outlines for the Artwork (gerber files).

     

    Any help is appreaciated...

    Thanks, Dennis 

    • Post Points: 35
  • Tue, Sep 15 2009 6:04 AM

    • steve
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    It's related to your board outline being zero (0) in width or thickness. Under the aerwork settings there is a undefined line width. Specify a value here (I suggest 10 mils or 0.254mm). Remember to do this for each artwork. You will then see a thickness in your gerber data. Some people generate an artwork that just contains the board outline.

    • Post Points: 20
  • Tue, Sep 15 2009 6:52 AM

    • Dennis H
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Hi Steve,

     

    Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try and let you know...

     

    Thanks, Dennis 

    • Post Points: 5
  • Tue, Sep 15 2009 8:57 AM

    • redwire
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

     Actually it's not needed.  It's comfort food for them.  There have been 1 or 2 specfic vendors I've used in the last 100 or so boards that asked for it as a cross-check.  Outputting it on its own film is best.  Just create a film, set up just the outline to display, match the film to the display and then set the line width for plotting for this layer.  Voila!

    • Post Points: 20
  • Tue, Sep 15 2009 11:05 AM

    • Dennis H
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

     Hi Steve,

     

    I tried putting 10 mils in the undefined line width box for each artwork and I left everything else the way it was and it still didn't work.

     

    Thanks, Dennis 

    • Post Points: 20
  • Wed, Sep 16 2009 2:34 AM

    • steve
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Dennis. Can you please confirm that the board geometry / oultine class/subclass is included  in the artwork film you are viiewing ?

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  • Wed, Sep 16 2009 4:05 AM

    • Dennis H
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

     Steve,

     

    Sorry to be a pain, The board outline/outline/subclass looks like it is included. Is there a box to check or as long as the outline say Board Geometry/ outline...

     

    Dennis 

    • Post Points: 20
  • Wed, Sep 16 2009 4:16 AM

    • steve
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Dennis. It should look like below. Make sure when you have the outline.art selected that the undefined line width is shown. (You have to repeat this for each artwork. (It's not a one off setting).

     

          

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  • Wed, Sep 16 2009 6:00 AM

    • Dennis H
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Answer Reply

    Steve,

     

    Thanks it worked, the PDF you sent helped out. After I opened it I knew what I was doing wrong....

     

    Thank You...

     

    Dennis 

     

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  • Wed, Feb 20 2013 9:08 PM

    • N i z e
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    It's late and I'm totally busted - but my 16.2 also seems to ignore the "undefined line width setting" for the outline... Showing the films looks fine (BoardGeometry/Outline layer is included in films)!

    So I thought I could just change the outline in the BoardGeometry/Outline layer. NOT: "E- (SPMHGE-544): Rectangle line width cannot be changed.". Ended up (embarrassing!) drawing a line on top of the outline rectangle. That worked - but was only plausible because it was a simple outline!

    Reminder to self: Find out best practice (or just a rational one) for including outline in artwork... ;-)

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  • Fri, Feb 22 2013 4:34 AM

    • steve
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Check that the undefined line is set on a film by film basis. It's not a one time set for all artwork films. Click on the film name and check the value.

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  • Fri, Feb 22 2013 5:48 AM

    • N i z e
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Every single film had undefined line set at 0.05mm - the outline showed up in none of them. Hence, I suspect this is more a question of my outline being wrong. Something like a rectangle (in the Allegro terms - not the geometrical sense ;-) not being a proper outline. (I still not quite understand why Allegro is so picky with the different types ;-)

    Guess I should check some of the other designs - I don't remember it to be problem earlier...

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  • Fri, Feb 22 2013 6:22 AM

    • steve
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    You have always been able add a thickness to a line item not a rectangle in tne Allegro sense. Do you have a photoplot outline Colors - Manufacture  - Photoplot_Outline) set to the same size as the board ? This would probably clip the outline off the artwork, Personally I never use the photoplot outline but if you must make it 1000 mils larger than anything you want in the artwork.

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  • Fri, Feb 22 2013 8:39 AM

    • N i z e
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    Steve, you are absolutely right: The Photoplot_Outline was the culprit!

    I still have a felling that there might be a better "best practice" for this - but using the undefined line width is definitely a fair, usable solution. (Only strange the parameter can only be set one film at a time ;-)

    Thanks for the insight! :-D

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  • Fri, Feb 22 2013 9:37 AM

    • Boma
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    Re: No Board outline when artwork is made Reply

    All,

    After reading this thread I felt the urge to respond.  The PHOTOPLOT OUTLINE was used years ago to restrict the output file to a certain length and width.  I think this was used by people that use to put formats on their artworks rather than just a title block. I think most, if not all fabricators read the gerbers into their CAM system where they can check and manipulate anything that they need to.  Then, they will either go directly into the photoplotter or generate their own artworks.   So 99.9% of the time it is not needed.  If it is there, the system will reduce the extents of the gerber data to just that window.  If it is not there, it will use the Film Size Limits specified in the General Parameters section of the Artwork Control Form which I think is 24 x 16.

    Next,  I think just about everyone who is fabing boards these days can read 274x format at a bare minimum.  I would not even mess with the old 275 format.  Even better, if you are using CAM350,ADIVA, or Valor to check your artworks, I would be using ODB++ or IPC-2581 if you can.  We have been using ODB++ for over 3 years without any issue and it puts eveything into ONE file.  We even include our Fab Drawing, Board Outlines, Panel Outlines, and anything else we think the fabricator might need.  We leave the board outline  and other things like dimension lines and text on the fab dwg at 0 line width and it still transfers into ODB++.  Heck, even the free ViewMate gerber viewer can read ODB++ data.  Time to get out of the Dark Ages boys and girls.  Just MHO.......;-)   I feel much better now thankyou.

    • Post Points: 20
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Started by Dennis H at 15 Sep 2009 05:04 AM. Topic has 15 replies.